[00:00:02] Speaker A: KMUD podcast presents.
You are listening to the voice of the free music and talk that liberate the mind people powered radio. And now it is time for Heart of the Earth. This is a program about Native Americans and other indigenous cultures. My name is Agnes, and I have a guest this morning on the phone. It's Earl Tully. He is the vice chairman of the Navajo Water Rights Committee mission. I met him decades, decades, decades ago when I was at Big Mountain trying to stop the forced relocation of the Dene people off their ancestral lands. I met him through his brother Cordell. And then I learned so much about Earl and just all the work that he does for his people at the Indigenous Environmental Network conference and many other places.
And it's the water. I mean, when I was at Big Mountain, and I remember, you know, just watching, you know, all these elders and, you know, their nephews going and, you know, having to bring. Haul the water and to know that they're still doing that to this day. Just last month, I was at. I was at the Navajo Nation, and I was at Monument Valley. And, you know, the hotels there, they have electricity and water, but there's actually people that live in Monument Valley and they still have to haul their water. And Time magazine in September did an incredible story about the Navajo water rights and what the people are going through. And there was a picture of Linda Jackson, a Dene woman, washing her hair in a basin because she can't take a shower. You know, she only can, you know, bathe herself because it uses up too much water. And that picture actually won one of the 100 best pictures of the year for Time magazine. And there's just an incredible history to the water rights of the Navajo people. So I'm going to begin by welcoming Ura. Welcome to Heart of the Earth.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Thank you very much. The radio program Heart of the Earth.
That's how it would be translated. But, yes, certainly, thank you very much and hope to have a very good interaction with you and then also at the same time, educate the listening audience in regards to the work that we are involved in.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: So maybe we could begin with just a little history of, you know, the water rights, because I know that I believe they were guaranteed water rights to Navajo people, but they never had them.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Well, one of the aspects that. In this particular case, I guess what I would like to share is that Navajo is really on an island. We have riverways and waterways around us, and we're very, very fortunate. Some of our sister tribes are not, you know, do not have that particular setting within their Ancestral land. But we have the Little Colorado River. We have the Colorado river, the main body, upper and lower. Then we have the San Juan, Utah, San Juan, New Mexico, Rio Grande, and then also Sanrio, the other waterbeds that are down around Navajo, sharing with our sister tribe, the Pueblos, Hopis, as well as the San Juan Paiutes. So in understanding this, and let me just give you a nutshell presentation on the Northeastern Arizona Water Rights Settlement act of 2024. If you were to put this on a timetable.
This particular discussion started in 1978, 46 years ago. This discussion has been ongoing.
And we're now at the.
We are now at the point of negotiating and coming up with a settlement which the San Juan Paiute tribe, Hopi Nation, as well as the Navajo Nation have come to an agreement to be able to present this particular document to Congress. There are three bills that are there. This particular document that I'm talking about Northeastern Arizona Water Rights Settlement act of 2024, that is Senate Bill 4633, and then also the House of Representative Bill 8940. Now, what makes this important is that Navajo has always asserted we have water rights. But in this particular case, we have been able to quantify the amount of water that is needed for Navajo Nation. There are various studies that have been done. And then also in comparison, Navajo Nation is 28,000 square miles east of the Grand Canyon, north of I40 all the way up to Albuquerque.
That is how vast Navajo Nation is. And one of the areas that is really important to understand is with the COVID pandemic that happened, families were in a struggle.
Those that are hauling water for personal domestic use, you know, do you wash your hands? Do you mop your floor? You know, what do you need to do? And that became the water budget was really strained at that particular time. So some of these areas have, you know, given us an opportunity to really evaluate and then put the attention on the needs of water here on the Navajo Nation. 30% of our particular community, people in this vast stretch of land do not have indoor facilities.
And in some cases, right across the border town, they may have water accessibility, but on Navajo side of land, they may not have. So in this particular case, as far as Northeastern Arizona water rights settlement, some of the information that we have shared is that on the average Navajo, a Navajo person will utilize seven gallons a day, as opposed to somebody that is living in the Phoenix area or other metropolitan area where they utilize 178 gallons a day. As far as paying for gas, more Than I mean, as well as paying for water, many of our Navajo families who have to haul water, the tabulation has been done that while their counterparts are paying $5 a gallon per se, the individual families that are living on Navajo reservation could be paying as much as seventy dollar gallons per day. And so you take a look at those comparisons and what we're looking at is not to address something in the very near future. And I'll get back to that because this particular agreement will take some time.
We are asking Congress for $5 billion to erect the infrastructure of water needs here across the Navajo Nation. There are some other areas that we have to understand.
Each individual state is a sovereign state. And therefore you cannot take, let's say for instance, water from Utah into Arizona or Arizona water into New Mexico because of their sovereignties.
Therefore, Navajo Nation is in the Four Corners area. And so we are in three states. And thereby we are trying to address our water needs and networking with our state officials as well as our federal officials. So in this discussion, one of the primary understanding folks should have is that this discussion has been taking place since 1978. The projection and the data that we use is what will be the population of Navajo Nation in 2110. That is 86 years from now. I am well into the winter of my season.
I have more years behind me than I have ahead of me. So the beneficiaries of this particular water rights settlement is going to be for those great grandchildren, great great grandchildren that are going to be setting their footprints here upon the earth. And I liken this unto the treaties that some of our nations have gone into, like the treaty of 1868. Our progenitors saw fit to put those articles in the treaty so that we could benefit in this particular day, nearly 160 years after they had placed their mark. So in our particular case, we would like to have a settlement so that those who are yet to come, they can look back at us and say that we are thankful that we were able to go through a water rights settlement. So in this particular case, I mentioned the Arizona portion. Now there's another portion of this which is Senate Bill 4998. And the companion bill, the House of Representative bill is 8945. That is the Navajo Nation Rio San Jose Stream system water rights settlement of 2024. That is in the state of New Mexico, Rio San Jose, Rio Perker Basin and New Mexico. We are having a settlement with them as well. And in these particular cases, the average Navajo in New Mexico for their ranch and their sheep camps and their homes, they pay $133 per thousand gallon. And without the settlement, then our families will continue to have to travel 30 miles of unimproved roads, washboards, muddy dirt roads, to be able to obtain water for their particular settlement.
This particular negotiation is an amendment to the settlement of the Pueblo of Acoma and then Pueblo of Laguna that covers the same geographical area. So with our system, Pueblo nations, we are working in concert with them. And the last bill that I would like to mention is the Navajo Gallup Water Supply Project act of 2023.
What I do know of this particular Navajo Gallup water supply, this Negotiation started in 1994 when Senator Pete Domenici was in the congressional halls. So 30 years ago, this discussion started.
And in this particular case, this is a 90 mile water line project. So we're creating a waterway, a stream way from Farmington, New Mexico, all the way to Gallup. And this would be right along Highway 491.
And this is a 90 mile waterway. It is to be able to secure reliable water. And this is an opportunity for us to come to an agreement. One of the areas that we would, that I would like to share is that in this discussion, we are sitting at the table. There is no middle person between us Navajos who are scientists, Navajos who are lawyers, and then our Navajo leaders and then the committee members as well as commissioners make up the body of Navajo who is negotiating on behalf of their nation. And we do understand that we have some blended cultures. We have some family members and relatives that are born for other nationalities or ethnic groups. But nonetheless, they are Navajo and are registered Navajos. And with their roots, they have come to share their particular expertise in the profession that they are in. Oftentimes we have heard that some of our relatives that are coming home, who are educated and are professionals, paraprofessionals, oftentimes we create stumbling blocks for them in an issue of, well, you don't speak Navajo, you are not fluent Navajo, you are not traditional, you weren't raised traditional, and all these isms that are there. I am in the winter of my years, and I am an elder, and thereby they represent my grandchildren. And I am in favor of them to speak in our behalf, utilize their particular expertise. Now, one of the areas that I would like to share is that during the negotiations, you know who in their vocabulary of Navajo or navid Navajo or Native American language, who has the vocabulary for one acre feet of water, or who has in their vocabulary one part per million, who has in their vocabulary the needs of our particular area that we will be able to have this body of water. So in these particular cases, in March 2023 and April 2023, we were at the. At the state courts down in Phoenix, federal court. And one of the things that came to my mind that I thought was really interesting was we could adjudicate. Adjudication takes a lot of money, lots of lawyers, and it can go on forever. And it's going to be up to one person to make a decision. And not everybody might be. It might not be happy with that. It's when a settlement is rendered by a judge or a special master. Now, the other part of adjudication is, is that we could just be spectators, Just sit on the side and let the good wishes of those that are entertaining this discussion on our behalf render us a choice for us. Or we could come to the table and participate in this particular discussion, have our input. So the latter portion and the very first position of litigation and then also participating in this discussion is where this dialogue is at. And that is something that is really important for us to understand that there are areas where we can begin to have a discussion and let people know what the needs of the Navajo Nation is and these particular waterways. They are elements of the discussions that happened long ago. Recently, I was at the Colorado River Water Users association, made up of seven states, ten tribes, and two countries.
And at that discussion, this particular topic was on the table as well. So we are in discussion with the seven states and then also the other 10 tribes. We are at the table with them. And then we are advocating in unison for this particular region because it will benefit non Navajos that are off Navajo, and it will benefit our particular region. And so that is where we're able to champion this particular cause and bringing it to the nation.
One of the other areas that I would like to share with you is this.
Taking a look at 7 gallons a day where other people are utilizing 170, 178 gallons per day. We are conserving our tribal nations and Native American country. Basically, I would say that our carbon footprint is the smallest.
And then also we have people out there that are saying that I'm living off the grid. You know, our tribal nations, our Indian nations have been living off the grid for a long time. So it's almost second nature. If I go home and hold water, it's second nature. I don't think anything about it.
The part that I think about is, okay, how am I going to utilize this particular water so that I'm able to use it efficiently. In some cases, you go into the home and then you get up in the morning, you turn on the water and say, oh, it's too cold for me to jump in the shower. I'll wait till it warms up. Just think the thousands and thousands of gallons that go down the drain so that an individual can basically get the temperature that they like before they jump in, while other people out there are hauling thousands of gallons either by wheelbarrow, by a vehicle, by other means to be able to transport water. And then the other aspect of this is that the understanding as to what the health needs and the health improvements that it will have for our tribal nation here in the Four Corners area. And so we did take into consideration that we are working with our sister tribe, the Hopis and Tewas that are there, as well as the San Juan Pueblo that are in our particular area that are our sister tribes as well. We have the sister pueblo of Zuni, Laguna and Acoma that are in this discussion as well. So it is an opportunity for us to really understand and come together as tribal nations to advocate for one another.
Where is this going? Well, in the state of Utah, when that particular Utah water discussion was happening, then President Trump at that time signed the document. So we have a document that was previously signed by President Trump, who was the 45th president. And then also we have President Obama that signed on behalf of the water rights settlement for New Mexico, and that was during his particular administration. 44.
And so it is important for us to understand and we would like to have the signature of President Biden before his term expires. And we feel very good about this discussion and hopefully it will be taken care of. And in this discussion, we are at the, you know, on the Hill, as I had mentioned, the bills that I had mentioned at the pro during this program, those are letters that we're asking people to support and so that we can have a discussion with them at one particular time or another. So the three bills that we have up on Congress, actually there are six of them.
But the one that I am asserting to which is the Northeastern Arizona Water Rights settlement Act of 2024, that is Senate Bill 4633.
The House of Representative bill, the companion bill is 8940. And then also the Rio Perco, that particular discussion and that particular document is the Navajo Nation, Navajo Nation Rio San Jose Stream System Water rights settlement of 2024.
The Senate bill is 4998. And the sister companion legislation in the House is 8945. And the last one that I would like to mention here is the settlement, or not the settlement, but the amendment to the Navajo Gallup Water supply amendments of 2023. So right now, right up to date, we have a 70 mile water piping.
The pipe is about 42 inches.
And we have seven gallons that is on the Navajo gall. I mean seven tanks that are on the water line for Navajo Gallup water project. Those seven tanks that we have, each container 1.5 million acres.
And so those are storage tanks that we have. And then the pipes that we have in place is going 90 miles. And another, which is the color lateral waterline project that families are using to date is in the New Mexico portion and that is 70 miles. So we have three projects that are in motion right now. One is completed. Families are utilizing them on the far eastern side of the Navajo Nation, right in the middle aspect of it in New Mexico, Arizona basically is the waterline project for Gallup Navajo waterline project. And that is 90 miles. And then the portion that we are asking for in regards to the northeastern Arizona waterline project, that particular waterline settlement, that particular bill, we have calculated about the need of $5 billion for infrastructure. So that is, that is where we're at. And we are very, very thankful for our sister tribes, the Hopi tribe and the San Juan Southern Ute tribe. Basically writing with us on these particular settlements.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: KMUD is a community radio station in the Redwood region of Northern California. Donate to support people powered
[email protected] I have a question to ask because, you know, I know how much uranium mining has gone on, you know, in Navajo country and you know, has that. Has any of that uranium tailings affected any of this water that you're trying to get?
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Okay. In this particular water, one of the areas is that the clean Water act purification aspect of it. You know, the water that I'm talking about is not pump water, it's not underground water, it's surface water riverways.
And so those are the testings that do take into that. We do take into discussion at the table as a cancer survivor, you know, regarding uranium mining and then also the downwinders, basically, you know that my ears are going to be perked for that. I'm listening out for that to ensure that this water that we have that is going to be potable will not be contaminated in one fashion or another.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: That is good to hear because I know, you know, when I was a big mountain, we'd drive down to near this school, and I believe it was, you know, a water. Well, we were drinking that water, and I always wondered, you know, how much uranium, you know, could be in that water because it was from underground water. And I know that, you know, a lot of the Dene people that do haul water, it's coming from underground sources. And I'm sure that it, you know, it's contributed immensely to the amount of cancer there.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Yes, there are various aspects of it. There are two, you know, main sources of water. That is an aquifer, the sea aquifer, the Coconino aquifer, and the N aquifer, which is the Navajo aquifer. And Navajo aquifer is very fresh and then clean, as opposed to the Coconino aquifer, which is, you know, in the Flagstaff and all the way up in the page area. But in that particular area, then there's a lot of alkali and other contaminants that are in there. It's still usable, but there are some issues in regards to the smell and the taste.
The in aquifer is the body that lies in the Four corners area all the way up into Utah. And so one of the areas that I had mentioned is that we have our own scientists. Sister Crystal Tulekotova is a principal hydrologist, and therefore we have our own scientist and who is of our own blood. And thereby we understand that she will have, you know, her particular expertise there to make sure that the water that we do receive does not have any other contaminants.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: You know, I know when I was there, Peabody coal played a big part in, you know, draining a lot of the water. I remember the first time I saw the Dinubito Wash, it was probably a football field wide. And by the end, you know, 15 years later, it was maybe 10ft wide with water coming through. And I know how much water was depleted from that area for coal mining.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: That particular coal mine, slurry line is no longer active right now. And one of the negotiations that we have to understand is that how long does it replenish itself? You know, an aquifer, Basically, some of Those waters are 10,000 years old, according to the scientists, basically, those that are in that particular field of dating those particular waterways. And that's one of the discussions that we have, and we have presented that particular issue that we need. You know, there's groundwater, obviously, there's dry water, wet water, legal water, riverways. I mean, there's so many different bodies of water. I just thought water was water. But there's certain identifications that they carry.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: You know, you also mentioned, you know, the Laguna Pueblo as one of the participants. And I know that our Secretary of Interior, Deb Haaland, not much longer, but that is where she is from. Is she helping in any way with the water rights?
[00:29:21] Speaker B: We have a particular individual that is from the cabinet of the Interior Secretary who works very, very closely with us. Mr. Gary Goal is very, very active, has open dialogue as far as the Bureau of Reclamation BoR and then also the Department of Interior. We've had a commissioner that has come and visited our particular region. And so we've been able to have good interaction with this present administration.
And then also, as I had mentioned previous administrations we have dealt with. So this will be the fourth administration that we're going to be dealing with. And so it's been a long time and basically our prayers are up and our petitions are up and thinking positive, which is all that we can do to be able to be a participant in this great American dream of having indoor facilities.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Well, I know that it's been, you know, quite a struggle for you and I just, you know, it's just been a real honor to have you talking with us and sharing your knowledge with us this morning. Earl, is there anything else you like to let our audience know, our listening audience know?
[00:30:51] Speaker B: I would like the listening audience to really help us support and they could contact their particular respective congressional members in their individual states, those that cover tribal nations, Obviously we have 572 tribal nations that are federally recognized and if we could get 572 letters sent to their respective congressional members, obviously that would propel one of the areas that we would like to see is that in our particular waterways this is an opportunity for us to be able to have access.
And we've been hauling water in our community and some of these areas is that if the water is contaminated in certain areas, and that is about as far as your resource will go, you know, when you're thirsty, you're thirsty and then obviously you don't think about whether the water is contaminated or not. And we do our best to let our community members know not to utilize a particular water source that has been identified as non potable water. And so in this particular case, if you could share, if your listeners could share individual support for the water bills that I had mentioned, namely again, let me go over them one last time and that is the Navajo Nation Rio San Jose Stream System Water Rights settlement act of 2024. And that particular Senate bill is 4998 and then also House of Representative bill 48,945. And then also the other aspect of this is that the support for the Northeastern Arizona Water Rights settlement Act of 2024, which is the biggest. It is. The Senate bill is 4633 and the House of Representative bill is 8940. And the last bill is that it is the Navajo Gallup Water Supply Project Amendment act of 2023. Amendment act is Senate Bill 1898. And then House of Representative bill is.
And this is for the southwest region, the Four Corners area. And Water is life.
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Water is life. Thank you so much, Earl, for taking the time this morning and letting us know about this very, very important issue. I know there's not a lot of time left in Congress and will these. I just. My one last question now, if these bills don't happen within Biden's time, will they roll over into. Or will they have. You have to start all over again.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: We will see at that particular point. And hopefully, you know, we believe in the miracle of Christmas.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Well, again, thank you so much, Earl, and your thoughts will be in my prayers and that the Navajo people will get this water because I spend a lot of time in Northeastern Navajo whole land all through the 80s and 90s. And I really understand this issue. And that's why it was so important for me to have you on heart of the earth this morning. And again, thank you.
[00:34:43] Speaker B: Okay, one last item here in regards to should these bills not make it? Obviously, I did mention that our adjudication pony is saddled and ready. And that is the other avenue.
We don't really want to go down that avenue.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: All right. Well, it's always good to have a plan B.
Yes.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: And we will ride down the Old town road.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: All right. Oh, thank you so much, Earl. I really appreciate you.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: Oh, I'll go in that door. Yeah.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Oh, all right. And I've been listening. You've been listening to Earl Tully. He is the vice chair of the Navajo Water Rights Commission. And. And like I said, this is just an issue that is just really, really important to me. And if you really want to read just an incredible article about the issue with the Navajo people, like I mentioned earlier, Time magazine, if you go to time.com and then you just type in this is life in America's Water Equality capital, it might be about to change. And it's just an excellent article with a history of what's been going on there. Again, that's time.com. this is life in America's Water Equality Capital and excellent article and excellent pictures. And again, you'll see one of the pictures that won the 100 best photos of Time magazine this year, and that's of Linda Jackson washing her hair in Monument Valley. And it's just incredible because, you know, they have a big hotel there, the View. I mean, I stayed there. There was lots of water, running water. The Goulding Motel, they all have, you know, running water right there. But the Dene people, the Navajo people that actually live in Monument Valley have no water source and they have to haul their water. It's just an incredible. To really, to really see and experience and, and it's just like Earl said, you know, but to the Dine people, it's just like second nature. It's just second nature.
I thought I'd share this story with you, and I'm trying to find it.
Here it is.
I love Ricey Wild.
She is Ojibwe and she writes a monthly column for the Circle magazine and I read her every month and sometimes I share it and I found this very interesting. She says there is a lot I could write about, like the farce of the US Presidential election, which in my opinion, was stolen. It sickens me, so I won't do that, except to say it ain't over. Oh, and I'm going to stop watching so much news and start watching more kitten videos instead. I will share with you what I've only previously teased about the existence of extraterrentials and my personal experiences with them. Go ahead and scoff and roll your eyes. I know what I saw and I am not the only one. Go ahead and put on your aluminum hats. But I have to break it to you, they don't work.
She says. Gather around my readers as I tell yous about my strange, at times, scary UFO journey. The first time I saw a UFO now called unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAPs, was when I was when I was three. It happened in Indiana, where we were visiting some relatives who lived in a trailer park. The adults suddenly became excited and rushed outside in the dark, and I, being a nosy kid, followed them. Of course, I was slower, but still in time to see three whitish glowing discs fly in formation rather slowly, it seemed to me, from right to left. Once back inside, a phone call was made to report the sighting and they heard, they heard it, that hundreds of people had already called about the same thing. Oddly, I was not frightened. As I got older, I began to have some dismiss as sleep paralyzed paralysis. But while I don't rule that out, for me it was more intense than that. During the day, I would have weird feelings like something was going to happen. And when I went to bed, I would think to myself, quote, I'm going for a ride tonight. Lying on my back, my body would vibrate like a buzzing feeling, and I would have what I thought were dreams about being on a metal table with bright lights in my eyes when I woke up. If I recalled anything at all, I dismissed it because I had no frame of reference for the dreams. Then I read Chariots of the Gods by Enrich von Dakin, which is a fascinating book about ancient technology, in which he writes that extraterrential beings were the ones who built ancient sites like the pyramids of Giza, Mayan pyramids, and Cahokia in Illinois. If you have ever watched ancient aliens on the History Channel, you will know their research. What irks me is that the hosts usually say that, especially in north and South America, the structures could not possibly have been built by indigenous peoples because they were simple people who did not possess the ability to do so. But I digress.
When I became pregnant with my son, the activity stepped up. It seemed like the ETs were very interested in my condition. One night while living in Duluth, Minnesota, in a basement apartment, I saw a grayish face peeking at me through the window. And just before I dropped off to sleep. In my dream, I was sitting under a tree in my nightie and saw another woman nearby who looked canatonic, and I tried to reassure she would be okay, that they would take us home.
When I woke, I had small twigs and dried leaves in my long hair, and the bottom of my feet had dirt on the soles.
When I remembered that moment, I wondered what the heck I was doing outside. It was January and freezing cold with heaps of snow. I moved back to Minneapolis and the visits continued. I once woke up to two small humanoid creatures standing by my bed while I was still pregnant. After my son was born, I recall waking momentarily and seeing bright colorful lights bouncing on the walls and being in a vehicle looking out of a window and thinking, so that. So that's it looks like from up here. Mind you, this was in the city in Raspberry. I was still being monitored. Then one night the ETS informed me they would not be bothering me any more. My words. I was so happy. I asked them to leave me something to show that they had been here. And I woke up thinking that there's something out there for me in the backyard. I looked around and there was a small crop circle about 4ft in diameter. I had another witness to see it, but forgot to take a picture. The above are only a few incidents I have been through in my life because last month I saw a huge reddish glowing upo through the trees. For some, the star people are showing up again.
Actually, they never left.
You know, there's so much wonderful things happening. I'm trying to keep to the positive. The land back, you know, and when I was talking with Earl about the water rights, the Dene people, I mean, in the back of my head, I just couldn't stop thinking about all the dam removal right here, you know, that the salmon are finally, finally after, you know, so many decades are now be able to flow free, you know, flow back and come back to their home. And, you know, some people were really skeptical and said, ah, you know, those dams have been there too long. Boy, it didn't take very long for the salmon to find their way home. And I hope that we all can find our way home. And that's as children of mother Earth and the responsibility we have, you know, we talk about that water and those rivers and in the back of my head, you know, they're securing it for their future generations. And I ask, what are we doing for our future generations here? I'll be back.
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